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	<title>Comments on: The World Without Public Libraries</title>
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	<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/</link>
	<description>the neverending reference interview of life</description>
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		<title>By: The Reports of Our Professional Deaths Have Been Greatly Exaggerated: Outside Observer Edition &#171; Agnostic, Maybe</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-2314</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Reports of Our Professional Deaths Have Been Greatly Exaggerated: Outside Observer Edition &#171; Agnostic, Maybe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 05:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-2314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] linked to it) Ebook Summit: Our Ebook Challenge The New Librarianship in the Age of the Ebooks The World Without Public Libraries (from this [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] linked to it) Ebook Summit: Our Ebook Challenge The New Librarianship in the Age of the Ebooks The World Without Public Libraries (from this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-858</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-858</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, I do have an idea that libraries do subscribe to expensive databases. I also know how much they cost. In a world without public libraries, these companies would need to adopt alternative forms of revenue. Could it be a pay per use, or short term subscriptions? There are databases now that have similar plans (LexisNexis and Westlaw come to mind for the myriad of subscription options they have to offer.)

Another note: it does not speak well for the Brooklyn Public Library to have someone engaged in attacks on fellow librarians at a time when you are in a direct public appeal for support. Especially when you are combining personal jabs with poor syntax.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I do have an idea that libraries do subscribe to expensive databases. I also know how much they cost. In a world without public libraries, these companies would need to adopt alternative forms of revenue. Could it be a pay per use, or short term subscriptions? There are databases now that have similar plans (LexisNexis and Westlaw come to mind for the myriad of subscription options they have to offer.)</p>
<p>Another note: it does not speak well for the Brooklyn Public Library to have someone engaged in attacks on fellow librarians at a time when you are in a direct public appeal for support. Especially when you are combining personal jabs with poor syntax.</p>
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		<title>By: LIBRARIAN</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-857</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LIBRARIAN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-857</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Craig:
I assume  you do not consider yourself a geek? Those who do watch ne NFL are NOT geeks? How would YOU categorize them?
What is your vocation, Craig? a truck driver?
Also wanted to add to the article itself: the author has no idea that public library subscribe for very expensive databases and those will never be accissble via bookswap or alike sites. No internet cafe will ever be able to subsrvibe for a database... Do you even know what a database is Craig?
I am a world traveller, fluent in 4 languages (beside Engslish), a photographer, a teacher and a very lovely and fashionalbe lady. What is your vacabulary, Craig, could you find a synonim for GEEK? quite an ugly word, but you probably like ugly - you do not seem to have a taste...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Craig:<br />
I assume  you do not consider yourself a geek? Those who do watch ne NFL are NOT geeks? How would YOU categorize them?<br />
What is your vocation, Craig? a truck driver?<br />
Also wanted to add to the article itself: the author has no idea that public library subscribe for very expensive databases and those will never be accissble via bookswap or alike sites. No internet cafe will ever be able to subsrvibe for a database&#8230; Do you even know what a database is Craig?<br />
I am a world traveller, fluent in 4 languages (beside Engslish), a photographer, a teacher and a very lovely and fashionalbe lady. What is your vacabulary, Craig, could you find a synonim for GEEK? quite an ugly word, but you probably like ugly &#8211; you do not seem to have a taste&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Why Closing More Public Libraries Might Be The Best Thing (&#8230;Right Now) &#171; Agnostic, Maybe</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-779</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Why Closing More Public Libraries Might Be The Best Thing (&#8230;Right Now) &#171; Agnostic, Maybe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 05:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Additional thoughts on this idea: The World Without Public Libraries [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Additional thoughts on this idea: The World Without Public Libraries [...]</p>
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		<title>By: competition comes from the strangest places &#171; Across Divided Networks</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-752</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[competition comes from the strangest places &#171; Across Divided Networks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 18:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] reminded of Andy&#8217;s post about what might substitute in a world without public libraries. Now, I loved this post, because I&#8217;m a sucker for economics-style thinking, but I gotta say, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reminded of Andy&#8217;s post about what might substitute in a world without public libraries. Now, I loved this post, because I&#8217;m a sucker for economics-style thinking, but I gotta say, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The World without Public Libraries &#171; Notes of a Binge Thinker</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-691</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The World without Public Libraries &#171; Notes of a Binge Thinker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] comment &#187;  As I continue my research on newspapers and the role of the library, I found this blog post about a thought experiment reviewing a world without public libraries.  It is written by a [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] comment &raquo;  As I continue my research on newspapers and the role of the library, I found this blog post about a thought experiment reviewing a world without public libraries.  It is written by a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andromeda</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-666</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andromeda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was feeling like I wasn&#039;t expressing myself adequately about mobile internet and realizing that was because I didn&#039;t actually remember any of the details, so I asked my husband (a former telecoms engineer)...he says that, in urban/suburban parts of Africa, figure on 10% penetration of mobile devices, less in rural areas (although a few phones per village anyway).  Essentially all of these phones will have internet -- it&#039;ll be at dialup speeds, it won&#039;t have the prettiness of an iPhone, and data will be more expensive than voice (although in some ways data plans are easier to get there than here).  When he was last in telecoms (last year), they were looking to deploy to a 500-person village in Nepal, where he expected there would be about 8% phone penetration (again, essentially all of those phones are internet-enabled, and users make flexible tradeoffs between data and voice -- they&#039;re not separate plans because there are no &quot;plans&quot;; people have prepaid minutes, and data uses them faster than voice does).

Again, I feel strongly that when people in our demographic talk about mobile devices, they&#039;re talking about iPhones/Droids/etc., and what I&#039;m saying is there&#039;s a whole world of mobile devices that look &lt;I&gt;nothing like this&lt;/I&gt;.  Or, as my husband pointed out, rich white people have Internet on their computer.  Or their phone and their computer.  But internet on *just your phone* is a totally different demographic.

I could&#039;ve sworn I saw a reference once, maybe via&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.zephoria.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;danah boyd&lt;/a&gt;, on mobile phones as primary internet access points among some (non-rich-white) Americans as well, but I can&#039;t find it now.  Anyway.  My point is.  &quot;Internet on your phone&quot; isn&#039;t just a first-world/rich-person phenomenon, it isn&#039;t just fancy color touchscreens on expensive devices, it isn&#039;t even necessarily &quot;smart&quot; phones at all -- and in fact the nature of access and use, the principles of good design, etc. can be very different -- so it&#039;s important to me to harp on that point.

(I&#039;m sure I could get more information on the economics of data plans too, but my husband is really *glad* to no longer be in telecoms, so perhaps it would be rude of me to trigger that particular half-hour rant. ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was feeling like I wasn&#8217;t expressing myself adequately about mobile internet and realizing that was because I didn&#8217;t actually remember any of the details, so I asked my husband (a former telecoms engineer)&#8230;he says that, in urban/suburban parts of Africa, figure on 10% penetration of mobile devices, less in rural areas (although a few phones per village anyway).  Essentially all of these phones will have internet &#8212; it&#8217;ll be at dialup speeds, it won&#8217;t have the prettiness of an iPhone, and data will be more expensive than voice (although in some ways data plans are easier to get there than here).  When he was last in telecoms (last year), they were looking to deploy to a 500-person village in Nepal, where he expected there would be about 8% phone penetration (again, essentially all of those phones are internet-enabled, and users make flexible tradeoffs between data and voice &#8212; they&#8217;re not separate plans because there are no &#8220;plans&#8221;; people have prepaid minutes, and data uses them faster than voice does).</p>
<p>Again, I feel strongly that when people in our demographic talk about mobile devices, they&#8217;re talking about iPhones/Droids/etc., and what I&#8217;m saying is there&#8217;s a whole world of mobile devices that look <i>nothing like this</i>.  Or, as my husband pointed out, rich white people have Internet on their computer.  Or their phone and their computer.  But internet on *just your phone* is a totally different demographic.</p>
<p>I could&#8217;ve sworn I saw a reference once, maybe via<a href="http://www.zephoria.org" rel="nofollow">danah boyd</a>, on mobile phones as primary internet access points among some (non-rich-white) Americans as well, but I can&#8217;t find it now.  Anyway.  My point is.  &#8220;Internet on your phone&#8221; isn&#8217;t just a first-world/rich-person phenomenon, it isn&#8217;t just fancy color touchscreens on expensive devices, it isn&#8217;t even necessarily &#8220;smart&#8221; phones at all &#8212; and in fact the nature of access and use, the principles of good design, etc. can be very different &#8212; so it&#8217;s important to me to harp on that point.</p>
<p>(I&#8217;m sure I could get more information on the economics of data plans too, but my husband is really *glad* to no longer be in telecoms, so perhaps it would be rude of me to trigger that particular half-hour rant. <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-665</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-665</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the reply, Andromeda. I think the giant caveat about mobile phone internet would be that it is still rather pricey and I don&#039;t see the price going down in the absence of libraries (unless they are trying to make up for lost business selling access to libraries). As much as people love their smart phones, I have yet to hear anyone rave about the pricing. The digital divide would be more pronounced barring an evolution of pricing. Although, given that text messages were expensive and optional in the past and now cheap or built-in to plans, I am hoping the same for data plans.

I, for one, am hoping that someone (*coughcoughBuffycoughcough*) will write a post along the lines of &quot;The World Without School Libraries&quot;. Or academic ones or business/corporate ones or whatever. I cannot speak on their behalf because I have no familiarity with them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reply, Andromeda. I think the giant caveat about mobile phone internet would be that it is still rather pricey and I don&#8217;t see the price going down in the absence of libraries (unless they are trying to make up for lost business selling access to libraries). As much as people love their smart phones, I have yet to hear anyone rave about the pricing. The digital divide would be more pronounced barring an evolution of pricing. Although, given that text messages were expensive and optional in the past and now cheap or built-in to plans, I am hoping the same for data plans.</p>
<p>I, for one, am hoping that someone (*coughcoughBuffycoughcough*) will write a post along the lines of &#8220;The World Without School Libraries&#8221;. Or academic ones or business/corporate ones or whatever. I cannot speak on their behalf because I have no familiarity with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Andromeda</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-660</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andromeda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 01:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-660</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The thing I really like about this post: the way it looks honestly and comprehensively at where libraries&#039; potential competition is (or &lt;I&gt;could&lt;/I&gt; be, recognizing that the world without libraries would be different, hence different things could arise...).

In re internet access, I want to point out that the internet cafe model is not the only one -- lots of people have their internet access via their cell phones.  In our demographic we tend to think that means expensive iPhones or similar, but in fact internet access on much cheaper phones is common in lots of places (look into, e.g., mobile banking in India).  So I think this is increasingly something people are getting outside of any sort of governmental structure.  However (of course) the kind of internet available through a mobile phone, especially a non-smartphone variety, is much different from the kind I&#039;m experiencing on my laptop -- whole swaths of non-mobile-oriented web sites are unusable, you can&#039;t readily integrate internet content with tools for processing it (e.g. word processing), etc. -- there&#039;s ways that mobile internet is totally transformative in many demographics, but there&#039;s a digital divide there as well, even if everyone has some form of access.  (But would people be interested in using internet cafes to get access to the software &amp; large screen if their phone suffices for all the things they do day-to-day, even if that means their day-to-day options don&#039;t get to include certain things?  Doubt it.)

@Buffy: My experience as a student was largely without a school librarian; my elementary school (minuscule, private) didn&#039;t have one, I don&#039;t think my (midsize, public) junior high did (but admittedly the less I remember about that the better), and, while my (midsize, public) high school had a library, we never *used* it -- not one of my classes required a research paper, I don&#039;t think any of my classes ever went to the library, and until my junior year people&#039;s schedules didn&#039;t commonly include study halls so you couldn&#039;t go on your own.  (I nonetheless managed to spend some happy hours there, and regret not having skipped classes to spend more.)

(I also don&#039;t know who staffed that library.  I mean, I remember that someone did, but I couldn&#039;t tell you about her credentials.)

So unfortunately, the world without school librarians isn&#039;t hard for me to imagine, and I can&#039;t say it would have made any difference to my education to have not had that library.  That, of course, is an indictment of my education -- in what universe is it acceptable for a high school student, especially one in accelerated classes, not to write a research paper?

By contrast the school in which I taught (small, private) has several outstanding librarians and a flabbergastingly lovely library space.  It is in constant, heavy use by students who love simply spending &lt;I&gt;time&lt;/I&gt; there -- it has clearly managed to be an emotional heart of the campus.  Many of my fellow teachers did not make nearly as much use of the library as they should have, but it was still integrated into lots of courses, the librarians were very helpful at pulling together resources to support lessons, the school provided grants for teachers to collaboratively develop lesson plans with librarians, etc.  (And, wouldn&#039;t you know it, the seventh graders were writing those research papers I was never expected to in high school.)

I imagine if you could plunk your legislators into that library (or, I&#039;m sure, into yours) for a day, they would Get It.  But I really can&#039;t make an argument that anyone should&#039;ve been funding my high school&#039;s library.  And if that&#039;s the only experience they&#039;ve had...you&#039;re right, they don&#039;t know what they&#039;re missing.  I wonder how best to communicate that.  (A question that applies, really, to all types of libraries...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing I really like about this post: the way it looks honestly and comprehensively at where libraries&#8217; potential competition is (or <i>could</i> be, recognizing that the world without libraries would be different, hence different things could arise&#8230;).</p>
<p>In re internet access, I want to point out that the internet cafe model is not the only one &#8212; lots of people have their internet access via their cell phones.  In our demographic we tend to think that means expensive iPhones or similar, but in fact internet access on much cheaper phones is common in lots of places (look into, e.g., mobile banking in India).  So I think this is increasingly something people are getting outside of any sort of governmental structure.  However (of course) the kind of internet available through a mobile phone, especially a non-smartphone variety, is much different from the kind I&#8217;m experiencing on my laptop &#8212; whole swaths of non-mobile-oriented web sites are unusable, you can&#8217;t readily integrate internet content with tools for processing it (e.g. word processing), etc. &#8212; there&#8217;s ways that mobile internet is totally transformative in many demographics, but there&#8217;s a digital divide there as well, even if everyone has some form of access.  (But would people be interested in using internet cafes to get access to the software &amp; large screen if their phone suffices for all the things they do day-to-day, even if that means their day-to-day options don&#8217;t get to include certain things?  Doubt it.)</p>
<p>@Buffy: My experience as a student was largely without a school librarian; my elementary school (minuscule, private) didn&#8217;t have one, I don&#8217;t think my (midsize, public) junior high did (but admittedly the less I remember about that the better), and, while my (midsize, public) high school had a library, we never *used* it &#8212; not one of my classes required a research paper, I don&#8217;t think any of my classes ever went to the library, and until my junior year people&#8217;s schedules didn&#8217;t commonly include study halls so you couldn&#8217;t go on your own.  (I nonetheless managed to spend some happy hours there, and regret not having skipped classes to spend more.)</p>
<p>(I also don&#8217;t know who staffed that library.  I mean, I remember that someone did, but I couldn&#8217;t tell you about her credentials.)</p>
<p>So unfortunately, the world without school librarians isn&#8217;t hard for me to imagine, and I can&#8217;t say it would have made any difference to my education to have not had that library.  That, of course, is an indictment of my education &#8212; in what universe is it acceptable for a high school student, especially one in accelerated classes, not to write a research paper?</p>
<p>By contrast the school in which I taught (small, private) has several outstanding librarians and a flabbergastingly lovely library space.  It is in constant, heavy use by students who love simply spending <i>time</i> there &#8212; it has clearly managed to be an emotional heart of the campus.  Many of my fellow teachers did not make nearly as much use of the library as they should have, but it was still integrated into lots of courses, the librarians were very helpful at pulling together resources to support lessons, the school provided grants for teachers to collaboratively develop lesson plans with librarians, etc.  (And, wouldn&#8217;t you know it, the seventh graders were writing those research papers I was never expected to in high school.)</p>
<p>I imagine if you could plunk your legislators into that library (or, I&#8217;m sure, into yours) for a day, they would Get It.  But I really can&#8217;t make an argument that anyone should&#8217;ve been funding my high school&#8217;s library.  And if that&#8217;s the only experience they&#8217;ve had&#8230;you&#8217;re right, they don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re missing.  I wonder how best to communicate that.  (A question that applies, really, to all types of libraries&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Ned Potter</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-655</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ned Potter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/the-world-without-public-libraries/#comment-655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, that&#039;s a good point. I need to have a think about that. 

Personally, I always try to focus on difficult issues without being completely all doom and gloom - overall I&#039;m positive about what we do, and our future, but often write about the troubling stuff anwyay. Not been blogging long so can&#039;t claim success here, but the *intent* is always to avoid the paralysing, self-fulfilling prophesy side of things... I&#039;d love to energise rather than paralyse!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s a good point. I need to have a think about that. </p>
<p>Personally, I always try to focus on difficult issues without being completely all doom and gloom &#8211; overall I&#8217;m positive about what we do, and our future, but often write about the troubling stuff anwyay. Not been blogging long so can&#8217;t claim success here, but the *intent* is always to avoid the paralysing, self-fulfilling prophesy side of things&#8230; I&#8217;d love to energise rather than paralyse!</p>
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