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	<title>Comments on: Blatant Berry Bottom Line</title>
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	<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/</link>
	<description>the neverending reference interview of life</description>
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		<title>By: Not Halfway But It Could Be A Start</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2247</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Not Halfway But It Could Be A Start]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 02:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2247</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] should subsidize half of their expenses. I’m guessing that one never got past the idea stage. Andy Woodworth is also thinking about the &#8220;Half Way&#8221; idea over at his blog, and he wonders if there are other ways to sponsor the newer-to-the-profession librarians so they [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] should subsidize half of their expenses. I’m guessing that one never got past the idea stage. Andy Woodworth is also thinking about the &#8220;Half Way&#8221; idea over at his blog, and he wonders if there are other ways to sponsor the newer-to-the-profession librarians so they [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Oct 2010 03:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In looking at what I wrote and what Mr. Berry wrote, I think it is a bit ambiguous. And while I did not make it any better in my wording, I was making the case for younger librarians going. If I came off as saying that &quot;older&quot; librarians and administration would not gain the same benefit from the conference (meaning, their attendance has less professional benefit), that&#039;s not entirely what I meant. While I&#039;m sure there are those who attend because they are expected to (or some such nonsense), I believe that the conferences are a great opportunity for the different generations to mix and interact.

I do take cues and get inspired by seniors librarians (both specifically you, Steven, and in general). I really dislike the whole &quot;get out of our way&quot; attitude that tends to creep up every now and again when it comes to this fake &quot;older vs younger&quot; librarians meme. I wouldn&#039;t want to be treated that way in twenty years from now and I don&#039;t believe that it is very helpful in retaining institutional knowledge. However, I do believe that there is merit and value to getting different &#039;generations&#039; of librarians at a conference. If it takes a different distribution of conference money wealth, then I think it&#039;s a good thing in the long run.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In looking at what I wrote and what Mr. Berry wrote, I think it is a bit ambiguous. And while I did not make it any better in my wording, I was making the case for younger librarians going. If I came off as saying that &#8220;older&#8221; librarians and administration would not gain the same benefit from the conference (meaning, their attendance has less professional benefit), that&#8217;s not entirely what I meant. While I&#8217;m sure there are those who attend because they are expected to (or some such nonsense), I believe that the conferences are a great opportunity for the different generations to mix and interact.</p>
<p>I do take cues and get inspired by seniors librarians (both specifically you, Steven, and in general). I really dislike the whole &#8220;get out of our way&#8221; attitude that tends to creep up every now and again when it comes to this fake &#8220;older vs younger&#8221; librarians meme. I wouldn&#8217;t want to be treated that way in twenty years from now and I don&#8217;t believe that it is very helpful in retaining institutional knowledge. However, I do believe that there is merit and value to getting different &#8216;generations&#8217; of librarians at a conference. If it takes a different distribution of conference money wealth, then I think it&#8217;s a good thing in the long run.</p>
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		<title>By: stevenb</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2196</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stevenb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Oct 2010 19:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Andy. I starting writing a post about Berry&#039;s column right after I came across it. I&#039;ll link to this post as it&#039;s a good perspective. My perspective will be a bit different coming from one of those senior librarians. 

But I think you misinterpret something Berry states in his editorial. You wrote:

The statement made by Mr. Berry is that the conference is attended by those who get the least use out of it: directors, top management, and others who are well established and well compensated through their position. 

Your statement suggest that senior librarians and administrators &quot;get the least use out of&quot; the conferences. I wouldn&#039;t agree if he made that point. I get a hell of a lot of use out of the conferences. Hearing new ideas, talking to the exhibitors (really critical if you are making allocation and purchase decisions) - and complaining to the vendors - best time to do it. And I get a lot of value out of meeting newer folks.

But what he actually says is:

The top managers, directors of libraries, and others who get the least use out of them get full subsidy and time off to attend conferences.

By that he means, I believe, that the senior library don&#039;t actually need the subsidies in that they could probably afford to pay their own way - unlike the newer folks who are earning less. I don&#039;t think he&#039;s saying folks like me get the least use out of the conference (which is how you replay it), but rather we get the least use of the subsidy to attend the conference.

Maybe I&#039;m the one reading it wrong - or the way it&#039;s written it&#039;s ambiguous and open to interpretation. But if he intended it the way you read it - I&#039;d argue he&#039;s wrong. But based on my interpretation, I don&#039;t think he meant it as a put down to us senior admin types.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Andy. I starting writing a post about Berry&#8217;s column right after I came across it. I&#8217;ll link to this post as it&#8217;s a good perspective. My perspective will be a bit different coming from one of those senior librarians. </p>
<p>But I think you misinterpret something Berry states in his editorial. You wrote:</p>
<p>The statement made by Mr. Berry is that the conference is attended by those who get the least use out of it: directors, top management, and others who are well established and well compensated through their position. </p>
<p>Your statement suggest that senior librarians and administrators &#8220;get the least use out of&#8221; the conferences. I wouldn&#8217;t agree if he made that point. I get a hell of a lot of use out of the conferences. Hearing new ideas, talking to the exhibitors (really critical if you are making allocation and purchase decisions) &#8211; and complaining to the vendors &#8211; best time to do it. And I get a lot of value out of meeting newer folks.</p>
<p>But what he actually says is:</p>
<p>The top managers, directors of libraries, and others who get the least use out of them get full subsidy and time off to attend conferences.</p>
<p>By that he means, I believe, that the senior library don&#8217;t actually need the subsidies in that they could probably afford to pay their own way &#8211; unlike the newer folks who are earning less. I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s saying folks like me get the least use out of the conference (which is how you replay it), but rather we get the least use of the subsidy to attend the conference.</p>
<p>Maybe I&#8217;m the one reading it wrong &#8211; or the way it&#8217;s written it&#8217;s ambiguous and open to interpretation. But if he intended it the way you read it &#8211; I&#8217;d argue he&#8217;s wrong. But based on my interpretation, I don&#8217;t think he meant it as a put down to us senior admin types.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2152</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 00:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I was not an attendee, I think Libraries at the Tipping Point worked because there was a good extensive network for other discussions. Twitter and chat were ways for people to share things and discuss. The dialogue is the important aspect of the conference and there was the right tools in place to make it work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I was not an attendee, I think Libraries at the Tipping Point worked because there was a good extensive network for other discussions. Twitter and chat were ways for people to share things and discuss. The dialogue is the important aspect of the conference and there was the right tools in place to make it work.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2150</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 00:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2150</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First, I know it&#039;s a fire suit. But if I call it a fire suit, only you and I will know what we are talking about. So I was a bit more descriptive so people would get the idea.

As to the rest, that sounds about right to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I know it&#8217;s a fire suit. But if I call it a fire suit, only you and I will know what we are talking about. So I was a bit more descriptive so people would get the idea.</p>
<p>As to the rest, that sounds about right to me.</p>
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		<title>By: JME</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2149</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JME]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:48:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about this one? I am a recent graduate with my MLIS and have been working part-time at my public library during school and since I have gotten my degree. Still waiting for that full-time position! I approached my supervisor about attending our state-level conference and offered to pay my own way. I wanted to go for several reasons: 1) I need continuing eduction credits to keep up my state certification; 2) I really enjoy networking with other librarians, and it will benefit me when I do find jobs to apply for; and 3) I learn from the sessions I attend, and hopefully would be able to take those ideas back home. 

However, I was told that I could not attend, even if I paid my own way, even if I only went for one day of the conference. I was told that I had to stay at work to staff the desk, even though only the director, assistant director, and youth services librarian were attending the conference. 

This is not even an issue of taking vacation days or spending your own money. This is an issue of providing opportunities for all staff members to pursue professional development.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about this one? I am a recent graduate with my MLIS and have been working part-time at my public library during school and since I have gotten my degree. Still waiting for that full-time position! I approached my supervisor about attending our state-level conference and offered to pay my own way. I wanted to go for several reasons: 1) I need continuing eduction credits to keep up my state certification; 2) I really enjoy networking with other librarians, and it will benefit me when I do find jobs to apply for; and 3) I learn from the sessions I attend, and hopefully would be able to take those ideas back home. </p>
<p>However, I was told that I could not attend, even if I paid my own way, even if I only went for one day of the conference. I was told that I had to stay at work to staff the desk, even though only the director, assistant director, and youth services librarian were attending the conference. </p>
<p>This is not even an issue of taking vacation days or spending your own money. This is an issue of providing opportunities for all staff members to pursue professional development.</p>
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		<title>By: taxonomylady</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2147</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[taxonomylady]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Andy, as one of the few librarian NASCAR fans I cannot stop myself from pointing out that it&#039;s called a fire suit :)

In terms of sponsorship, I say go for it.  I don&#039;t have a problem with people making money off of their work, as long as its obvious who&#039;s paying them.  In fact, that&#039;s one of the things I love about NASCAR.  They don&#039;t try and obscure who is paying the bills.  Besides, there seems to be so few library vendors that people love - why not highlight those that are doing a great work?

I don&#039;t know exactly how ALA conferences are funded, but my experience at local/regional conferences is that they are funded largely by the vendors.  I think that working on this relationship could have an impact on offerings and price.

The choice of who should attend should be based at least in some part on community need - evidence based conference attendance.  What are the library&#039;s goals this year and how is attendance at this conference going to help?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, as one of the few librarian NASCAR fans I cannot stop myself from pointing out that it&#8217;s called a fire suit <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In terms of sponsorship, I say go for it.  I don&#8217;t have a problem with people making money off of their work, as long as its obvious who&#8217;s paying them.  In fact, that&#8217;s one of the things I love about NASCAR.  They don&#8217;t try and obscure who is paying the bills.  Besides, there seems to be so few library vendors that people love &#8211; why not highlight those that are doing a great work?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know exactly how ALA conferences are funded, but my experience at local/regional conferences is that they are funded largely by the vendors.  I think that working on this relationship could have an impact on offerings and price.</p>
<p>The choice of who should attend should be based at least in some part on community need &#8211; evidence based conference attendance.  What are the library&#8217;s goals this year and how is attendance at this conference going to help?</p>
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		<title>By: Cyndi</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2144</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cyndi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s too much $ to attend these conferences for sure.  I&#039;m always glad when I go, except the one in Anaheim (poorly done from my perspective) because it motivates and gives me a few ideas but for the most part, it does not usually equal the expense.  Great to see other cities and other library sytems but the cost prevents many from attending.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s too much $ to attend these conferences for sure.  I&#8217;m always glad when I go, except the one in Anaheim (poorly done from my perspective) because it motivates and gives me a few ideas but for the most part, it does not usually equal the expense.  Great to see other cities and other library sytems but the cost prevents many from attending.</p>
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		<title>By: librarianry</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2143</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[librarianry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2143</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As Andromeda pointed out, what about virtual conferences?  Libraries at the Tipping Point seemed to do relatively well, and while face-to-face interaction/networking is always the best option, social networking seems to be doing at least a decent job of networking.  It&#039;s possible that newbies (and I say that as a term of endearment since I am one) will have more exposure to conferences through these means.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Andromeda pointed out, what about virtual conferences?  Libraries at the Tipping Point seemed to do relatively well, and while face-to-face interaction/networking is always the best option, social networking seems to be doing at least a decent job of networking.  It&#8217;s possible that newbies (and I say that as a term of endearment since I am one) will have more exposure to conferences through these means.</p>
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		<title>By: thewikiman</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2142</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thewikiman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Oct 2010 06:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/blatant-berry-bottom-line/#comment-2142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t know you could do that with Google Reader, that&#039;s a real eye-opener. Obviously it&#039;s only part of the story - less than half my subscribers use Google Reader it appears. But seeing your (Andy) stratospheric subscription numbers has half solved a mystery for me - I&#039;ve always wondered at the feedburner stats displayed on the right of your blog. As in, a: how the hell do so few people subscribe to such a well known blog and b: how come it seems like literally every single one of us comments each time you write a post!

So clearly you *don&#039;t* only have 91 subscribers - now can you solve the second half of the mystery for me? What is that stat doing there and where does it come from..?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t know you could do that with Google Reader, that&#8217;s a real eye-opener. Obviously it&#8217;s only part of the story &#8211; less than half my subscribers use Google Reader it appears. But seeing your (Andy) stratospheric subscription numbers has half solved a mystery for me &#8211; I&#8217;ve always wondered at the feedburner stats displayed on the right of your blog. As in, a: how the hell do so few people subscribe to such a well known blog and b: how come it seems like literally every single one of us comments each time you write a post!</p>
<p>So clearly you *don&#8217;t* only have 91 subscribers &#8211; now can you solve the second half of the mystery for me? What is that stat doing there and where does it come from..?</p>
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