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	<title>Comments on: Open Thread Thursday: Third Rails</title>
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	<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/</link>
	<description>the neverending reference interview of life</description>
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		<title>By: Staying posi: How I learned to care in a different way.</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3770</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Staying posi: How I learned to care in a different way.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 19:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] post was inspired by this LSW FF discussion which was inspired by this Agnostic Maybe blog post. What started about “third-rails” of libraryland sort of veered into a discussion of the need [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post was inspired by this LSW FF discussion which was inspired by this Agnostic Maybe blog post. What started about “third-rails” of libraryland sort of veered into a discussion of the need [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Penny Pinching Librarian</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3399</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Penny Pinching Librarian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 15:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The third rail I&#039;ve been struggling with the most lately is wondering how long I can afford to be a librarian.

I knew what I was getting into when I chose librarianship as a career. I knew I&#039;d earn a lot less than others with similar education and experience. But I also knew the work and the environment was right for me. As long as I could pay my bills, it was fine. So I never took much interest in debates over compensation for librarians.

Now, after over a dozen years in the profession, I&#039;m not only working in a notably underpaid profession, I&#039;m working at an institution that pays considerably less than others in the same geographic area. I pay my bills, but have to juggle sometimes to do it. Saving is extremely hard. Dreams of travel are deferred indefinitely. Retirement in 30 or so years? I don&#039;t really believe I&#039;ll ever be able to afford it.

But I love my job. I love my institution. I don&#039;t want to leave it or librarianship, even though I have a skill set I could take elsewhere. But I do wonder how much longer I can do it. And how much longer I can spend so much of my own time and money on professional development before my well of resources (financial, physical, mental) dries up. Sure, professional development is its own reward in many ways. I became a librarian because I love to learn. But still...

Apart from my personal worries, I wonder how long we can continue to expect to attract and retain &quot;the right stuff&quot; in libraries. We are asked to put a whole lot of ourselves into this profession. Money isn&#039;t the only compensation for all that work, but it&#039;s not entirely unimportant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The third rail I&#8217;ve been struggling with the most lately is wondering how long I can afford to be a librarian.</p>
<p>I knew what I was getting into when I chose librarianship as a career. I knew I&#8217;d earn a lot less than others with similar education and experience. But I also knew the work and the environment was right for me. As long as I could pay my bills, it was fine. So I never took much interest in debates over compensation for librarians.</p>
<p>Now, after over a dozen years in the profession, I&#8217;m not only working in a notably underpaid profession, I&#8217;m working at an institution that pays considerably less than others in the same geographic area. I pay my bills, but have to juggle sometimes to do it. Saving is extremely hard. Dreams of travel are deferred indefinitely. Retirement in 30 or so years? I don&#8217;t really believe I&#8217;ll ever be able to afford it.</p>
<p>But I love my job. I love my institution. I don&#8217;t want to leave it or librarianship, even though I have a skill set I could take elsewhere. But I do wonder how much longer I can do it. And how much longer I can spend so much of my own time and money on professional development before my well of resources (financial, physical, mental) dries up. Sure, professional development is its own reward in many ways. I became a librarian because I love to learn. But still&#8230;</p>
<p>Apart from my personal worries, I wonder how long we can continue to expect to attract and retain &#8220;the right stuff&#8221; in libraries. We are asked to put a whole lot of ourselves into this profession. Money isn&#8217;t the only compensation for all that work, but it&#8217;s not entirely unimportant.</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cindy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 14:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, Emily - as a &quot;seasoned&quot; director, your post made me cringe.  I&#039;d like to believe I would do better (at least I think I try), but I can see that behavior among my colleagues.  And, I know you know it isn&#039;t must about the physical building, but the culture of the library.  Sigh.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Emily &#8211; as a &#8220;seasoned&#8221; director, your post made me cringe.  I&#8217;d like to believe I would do better (at least I think I try), but I can see that behavior among my colleagues.  And, I know you know it isn&#8217;t must about the physical building, but the culture of the library.  Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3395</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for getting it posted.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for getting it posted.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 05:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do like that analogy at the end there. All libraries (should) have librarians, not not all librarians have libraries. The place is less relevant than the practice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do like that analogy at the end there. All libraries (should) have librarians, not not all librarians have libraries. The place is less relevant than the practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3393</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 05:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As Steve Lawson pointed out on the Library Society of the World thread on this post, MLS programs are more like the weather: people talk about it but no one does anything. It&#039;s less of a third rail than a common harping point. There is no lack of dialogue about MLS schools, it&#039;s just a lack of action that is missing. Or the professional will to do it. I think the overgrowth of graduates will solve some of those issues, but otherwise, nothing is going to change.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Steve Lawson pointed out on the Library Society of the World thread on this post, MLS programs are more like the weather: people talk about it but no one does anything. It&#8217;s less of a third rail than a common harping point. There is no lack of dialogue about MLS schools, it&#8217;s just a lack of action that is missing. Or the professional will to do it. I think the overgrowth of graduates will solve some of those issues, but otherwise, nothing is going to change.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 05:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh yeah, totally right about the buyin. It has to be there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, totally right about the buyin. It has to be there.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3386</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 02:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For some reason, Wordpress was marking it as spam. So I had to go in and tell it otherwise! Sorry it made you think you were going crazy...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some reason, WordPress was marking it as spam. So I had to go in and tell it otherwise! Sorry it made you think you were going crazy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Courtney Walters</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3383</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Courtney Walters]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Feb 2011 23:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What a great post, Andy. I think everyone has done a wonderful job outlining many of the issues within our profession, so I&#039;ll only add a few thoughts that came to my while I read them.

I, too am sad that any library school would opt to completely cut or change a course such as History of the Book. Even if (and I definitely don&#039;t think this) such a course is considered &quot;irrelevant&quot; to the direction most information professionals will take in the future, there is something to understanding where it has been. This is why I believe that it is important to understand both the new/developing metadata schema as well as the &quot;traditional&quot; forms of cataloging. However, I also think that there should be much more &quot;hands on&quot; work required. A good intellectual foundation is not worth much if you have acquired no practical skills. Most LIS students opt to work in libraries, or already worked in them before pursuing advanced degrees, but a more structured experience for those that want or need them would be an improvement. In the teacher ed program I work for now, students are required to work in classrooms throughout their school career, not just at the end (student teaching being the equivalent to a library internship); requiring a similar range of experiences for LIS students would not only be useful in helping them determine the right career path for them, but would also contribute to &quot;big tent librarianship.&quot;

I find it interesting that as I read about teachers, teacher education programs (a personal interest) and graduate level teaching degrees, there are many of the same complaints being made about them as there are about LIS programs. It seems that lack of rigor is not only found in our professional schools.

Just some random thoughts...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great post, Andy. I think everyone has done a wonderful job outlining many of the issues within our profession, so I&#8217;ll only add a few thoughts that came to my while I read them.</p>
<p>I, too am sad that any library school would opt to completely cut or change a course such as History of the Book. Even if (and I definitely don&#8217;t think this) such a course is considered &#8220;irrelevant&#8221; to the direction most information professionals will take in the future, there is something to understanding where it has been. This is why I believe that it is important to understand both the new/developing metadata schema as well as the &#8220;traditional&#8221; forms of cataloging. However, I also think that there should be much more &#8220;hands on&#8221; work required. A good intellectual foundation is not worth much if you have acquired no practical skills. Most LIS students opt to work in libraries, or already worked in them before pursuing advanced degrees, but a more structured experience for those that want or need them would be an improvement. In the teacher ed program I work for now, students are required to work in classrooms throughout their school career, not just at the end (student teaching being the equivalent to a library internship); requiring a similar range of experiences for LIS students would not only be useful in helping them determine the right career path for them, but would also contribute to &#8220;big tent librarianship.&#8221;</p>
<p>I find it interesting that as I read about teachers, teacher education programs (a personal interest) and graduate level teaching degrees, there are many of the same complaints being made about them as there are about LIS programs. It seems that lack of rigor is not only found in our professional schools.</p>
<p>Just some random thoughts&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: T Scott</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3380</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Feb 2011 22:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/open-thread-thursday-third-rails/#comment-3380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Damn.  There&#039;s not enough history of the book being taught in the first place, so I&#039;m sad to see another place cutting more of it out.  I understand the frustration of new grads feeling they&#039;re not being taught &quot;what&#039;s happening now&quot; but the fact is it&#039;s changing so fast, there&#039;s no way that a curriculum committee can keep up with it.  I&#039;m an old guy -- I&#039;ve been a library director for over twenty years, so I&#039;ve hired lots of sprouts.  What I want is somebody who has an appreciation for the long history of our profession, who has a passionate commitment to sharing information and who has a personality that will make them reckless about getting out and about and engaging with the community.  We can teach them the rest of what they need.  I need people who are unafraid of failure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn.  There&#8217;s not enough history of the book being taught in the first place, so I&#8217;m sad to see another place cutting more of it out.  I understand the frustration of new grads feeling they&#8217;re not being taught &#8220;what&#8217;s happening now&#8221; but the fact is it&#8217;s changing so fast, there&#8217;s no way that a curriculum committee can keep up with it.  I&#8217;m an old guy &#8212; I&#8217;ve been a library director for over twenty years, so I&#8217;ve hired lots of sprouts.  What I want is somebody who has an appreciation for the long history of our profession, who has a passionate commitment to sharing information and who has a personality that will make them reckless about getting out and about and engaging with the community.  We can teach them the rest of what they need.  I need people who are unafraid of failure.</p>
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