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	<title>Comments on: Beyond Agreeing to Disagree</title>
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	<description>the neverending reference interview of life</description>
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		<title>By: Eric S Riley</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/beyond-agreeing-to-disagree/#comment-7161</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric S Riley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2012 13:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/?p=1452#comment-7161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I remember reading this article on Salon about personal Facebook accounts becoming echo chambers.  http://www.salon.com/2011/10/22/is_my_facebook_page_a_liberal_echo_chamber/  

And for the most part mine is, and I have no problems with that.  I have dropped family members from my Facebook feed because I couldn&#039;t bear to see their aborted fetuses and gun-toting jingoism another day.  For me, Facebook is a retreat into an ongoing conversation with my friends.  I want it to be fun, moderately informative, but really I want it to be an opportunity to connect with people I rarely get to see.  For many people they have diverse lives, and diverse enough interests that I can gloss over an occasional comment.  But if the only thing they share is something that I find personally offensive, I&#039;m dropping them. 

There was a period of several years in my life when I stopped reading the paper and watching the news entirely.  I needed to live in a vacuum away from the drama of the second Bush administration, because the daily disgust that I had, living in DC and constantly being surrounded/assaulted by the constant stream of rage inducing apoplexy was making me physically sick.  Seriously.  My blood pressure was skyrocketing and I was on the verge of having a stroke.  So I took steps to shield myself from reality, embracing only fiction and wilderness retreats for as long as I needed to do so.  I&#039;m not going to put myself back into that condition, under any circumstances.  And if that means I don&#039;t talk to a second cousin or some random person I met at a conference, I have no problem with that.

Does this affect my work?  Not in the slightest.  Because in my personal life I am entitled to have my own personal opinions and associate with whomever I please.  When I am in my position at work, I will answer all questions to the best of my ability regardless of the effect that it has on me.  Yes, I have answered conservative Christians who come looking for biblical justification for discrimination against homosexual people.  I showed it to them in the concordances, and where to search online to find that.  And then I walked away.  As people we have the ability to be impartial in our dealings professionally, regardless of our personal politics.  You may be agnostic, maybe, but I&#039;m definitely not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember reading this article on Salon about personal Facebook accounts becoming echo chambers.  <a href="http://www.salon.com/2011/10/22/is_my_facebook_page_a_liberal_echo_chamber/" rel="nofollow">http://www.salon.com/2011/10/22/is_my_facebook_page_a_liberal_echo_chamber/</a>  </p>
<p>And for the most part mine is, and I have no problems with that.  I have dropped family members from my Facebook feed because I couldn&#8217;t bear to see their aborted fetuses and gun-toting jingoism another day.  For me, Facebook is a retreat into an ongoing conversation with my friends.  I want it to be fun, moderately informative, but really I want it to be an opportunity to connect with people I rarely get to see.  For many people they have diverse lives, and diverse enough interests that I can gloss over an occasional comment.  But if the only thing they share is something that I find personally offensive, I&#8217;m dropping them. </p>
<p>There was a period of several years in my life when I stopped reading the paper and watching the news entirely.  I needed to live in a vacuum away from the drama of the second Bush administration, because the daily disgust that I had, living in DC and constantly being surrounded/assaulted by the constant stream of rage inducing apoplexy was making me physically sick.  Seriously.  My blood pressure was skyrocketing and I was on the verge of having a stroke.  So I took steps to shield myself from reality, embracing only fiction and wilderness retreats for as long as I needed to do so.  I&#8217;m not going to put myself back into that condition, under any circumstances.  And if that means I don&#8217;t talk to a second cousin or some random person I met at a conference, I have no problem with that.</p>
<p>Does this affect my work?  Not in the slightest.  Because in my personal life I am entitled to have my own personal opinions and associate with whomever I please.  When I am in my position at work, I will answer all questions to the best of my ability regardless of the effect that it has on me.  Yes, I have answered conservative Christians who come looking for biblical justification for discrimination against homosexual people.  I showed it to them in the concordances, and where to search online to find that.  And then I walked away.  As people we have the ability to be impartial in our dealings professionally, regardless of our personal politics.  You may be agnostic, maybe, but I&#8217;m definitely not.</p>
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		<title>By: argumentsagainstreligion</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/beyond-agreeing-to-disagree/#comment-7127</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[argumentsagainstreligion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 19:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/?p=1452#comment-7127</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/beyond-agreeing-to-disagree/#comment-7126</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/?p=1452#comment-7126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The followers of Isaac Newton rather famously took up one of his famous expressions, &quot;Non fingo Hypotheses&quot; - roughly &quot;I won&#039;t fake a hypothesis&quot; as a motto. They believed that all truths began with an ignorance, so declaring ones ignorance was an invitation and an invocation to discovery. I think in our partisan age &quot;I disagree with you&quot; should be the invitation to tries of friendship. It says I care enough about you to engage with you, my equal. To disagree is not an affront, but a statement of solidarity with the humanity of the other. With so many places to turn our eyes, the act of looking at one another is a pledge. 

To be clear, the decision to promote discourse is not a neutral value. It takes a stance against anyone who would use power to enforce uniformity. Librarians make a space for the plurality of thoughts not because it is a received law that we follow, but because it is the most efficacious way to promote human flourishing. In order to make this space available, we must not be neutral towards the necessary architecture of the public sphere; discourse, civility, empathy. We aught to promote them actively, since they&#039;re the foundation of intellectual freedom. Newton refused to feign hypotheses, but he was brash in his insistence that he had the right method for turning ignorance into truth. In this way, librarians remain neutral to the merits of the various recorded products of civilization, but never doubt that civilization must be protected, so that those products may continue to be produced.

As for the concordance between the public and private speech of librarians, we are allowed to be complex beings. Professional ethics are just that, ethics that guide the action of the professional while we are acting as agents of the profession. When you are outside that domain, other ethics will naturally apply. It doesn&#039;t mean that you&#039;re being a bad librarian, it means that you&#039;re being a good you, in all your complexity. If, however, you find that you&#039;re acting spontaneously on a case by case basis, without the benefit of a fully formed ethical system, you could do a lot worse than the ethics the profession holds dear.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The followers of Isaac Newton rather famously took up one of his famous expressions, &#8220;Non fingo Hypotheses&#8221; &#8211; roughly &#8220;I won&#8217;t fake a hypothesis&#8221; as a motto. They believed that all truths began with an ignorance, so declaring ones ignorance was an invitation and an invocation to discovery. I think in our partisan age &#8220;I disagree with you&#8221; should be the invitation to tries of friendship. It says I care enough about you to engage with you, my equal. To disagree is not an affront, but a statement of solidarity with the humanity of the other. With so many places to turn our eyes, the act of looking at one another is a pledge. </p>
<p>To be clear, the decision to promote discourse is not a neutral value. It takes a stance against anyone who would use power to enforce uniformity. Librarians make a space for the plurality of thoughts not because it is a received law that we follow, but because it is the most efficacious way to promote human flourishing. In order to make this space available, we must not be neutral towards the necessary architecture of the public sphere; discourse, civility, empathy. We aught to promote them actively, since they&#8217;re the foundation of intellectual freedom. Newton refused to feign hypotheses, but he was brash in his insistence that he had the right method for turning ignorance into truth. In this way, librarians remain neutral to the merits of the various recorded products of civilization, but never doubt that civilization must be protected, so that those products may continue to be produced.</p>
<p>As for the concordance between the public and private speech of librarians, we are allowed to be complex beings. Professional ethics are just that, ethics that guide the action of the professional while we are acting as agents of the profession. When you are outside that domain, other ethics will naturally apply. It doesn&#8217;t mean that you&#8217;re being a bad librarian, it means that you&#8217;re being a good you, in all your complexity. If, however, you find that you&#8217;re acting spontaneously on a case by case basis, without the benefit of a fully formed ethical system, you could do a lot worse than the ethics the profession holds dear.</p>
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		<title>By: Leah White</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/beyond-agreeing-to-disagree/#comment-7125</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leah White]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/?p=1452#comment-7125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My favorite part of this post is: &quot;In turning off people with dissimilar viewpoints, this action merely carves out a smaller and more efficient echo chamber and leads to gaps of comprehension and acknowledgement.&quot; That sentence kicks ass, Andy. I have a good example of it too - I posted something to my facebook cheering on Mayor Rahm Emmanuel when he told Chick-fil-a that they&#039;re not welcome in Chicago. But several of my friends pointed out how rulings like this can easily be turned on their head - this is the same type of thinking that kept black-owned businesses out of the city for a long time. You cannot deny a business entry to a city if they aren&#039;t actively discriminating against a group. I genuinely hadn&#039;t thought of this - only my feelings that the CEO of Chick-fil-a is an evil jerkbag. And after some thought, realized that what my friends were saying makes sense.

It helps to listen to all opinions. Now if that person is actively discriminating or bullying? That&#039;s another story. That&#039;s why the internet gods created the block function.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My favorite part of this post is: &#8220;In turning off people with dissimilar viewpoints, this action merely carves out a smaller and more efficient echo chamber and leads to gaps of comprehension and acknowledgement.&#8221; That sentence kicks ass, Andy. I have a good example of it too &#8211; I posted something to my facebook cheering on Mayor Rahm Emmanuel when he told Chick-fil-a that they&#8217;re not welcome in Chicago. But several of my friends pointed out how rulings like this can easily be turned on their head &#8211; this is the same type of thinking that kept black-owned businesses out of the city for a long time. You cannot deny a business entry to a city if they aren&#8217;t actively discriminating against a group. I genuinely hadn&#8217;t thought of this &#8211; only my feelings that the CEO of Chick-fil-a is an evil jerkbag. And after some thought, realized that what my friends were saying makes sense.</p>
<p>It helps to listen to all opinions. Now if that person is actively discriminating or bullying? That&#8217;s another story. That&#8217;s why the internet gods created the block function.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob (@svelteassassin)</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/beyond-agreeing-to-disagree/#comment-7124</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob (@svelteassassin)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 17:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/?p=1452#comment-7124</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The issue is the medium of social media, or really any kind of electronic discourse.  Even in e-mail, it&#039;s easy to misinterpret what someone is trying to say.  In a social media environment, it&#039;s even easier, given that many of us, maybe most of us, aren&#039;t talking to people that we actually know.  In addition, that fact that our comments may be directed to one particular person, but it can be seen by everybody in a particular circle, complicates matters even more.  I could be addressing a comment to my wife, my brother, or a person I&#039;ve been friends with for 15 years, but people who don&#039;t know me at all will see it too.  We end up responding to what we think the comment means, without putting it into the context of knowing that person or the relationship between the people already communicating.

As far as how this affects librarians, I think it&#039;s a learning experience.  Most librarians, while passionate about many different issues, tend to think that we&#039;re above the fray. We pride ourselves on being defenders of free speech and expression, and facilitators of critical thinking and informed debate. However, when an issue really touches a personal nerve, it turns out we&#039;re a bunch of hotheaded, irrational humans just like everybody else.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is the medium of social media, or really any kind of electronic discourse.  Even in e-mail, it&#8217;s easy to misinterpret what someone is trying to say.  In a social media environment, it&#8217;s even easier, given that many of us, maybe most of us, aren&#8217;t talking to people that we actually know.  In addition, that fact that our comments may be directed to one particular person, but it can be seen by everybody in a particular circle, complicates matters even more.  I could be addressing a comment to my wife, my brother, or a person I&#8217;ve been friends with for 15 years, but people who don&#8217;t know me at all will see it too.  We end up responding to what we think the comment means, without putting it into the context of knowing that person or the relationship between the people already communicating.</p>
<p>As far as how this affects librarians, I think it&#8217;s a learning experience.  Most librarians, while passionate about many different issues, tend to think that we&#8217;re above the fray. We pride ourselves on being defenders of free speech and expression, and facilitators of critical thinking and informed debate. However, when an issue really touches a personal nerve, it turns out we&#8217;re a bunch of hotheaded, irrational humans just like everybody else.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/beyond-agreeing-to-disagree/#comment-7120</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kristin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 15:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/?p=1452#comment-7120</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your opinion sounds very biased towards people who specifically don&#039;t agree with the things YOU say. There are plenty of other reasons why people get offended, particularly if the person they&#039;re arguing with is denying them basic human courtesy or saying things that trigger PTSD episodes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your opinion sounds very biased towards people who specifically don&#8217;t agree with the things YOU say. There are plenty of other reasons why people get offended, particularly if the person they&#8217;re arguing with is denying them basic human courtesy or saying things that trigger PTSD episodes.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/beyond-agreeing-to-disagree/#comment-7119</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrea]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 15:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/?p=1452#comment-7119</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think Lauren has some great points. I don&#039;t think that promoting the freedom to read and fighting censorship necessarily means that we should promote all worldviews equally. I have sat and helped people research and try to prove views that I found personally repugnant. I treated those persons with the same basic respect every human deserves, but providing equal access does not necessarily mean that we have to publicly say that both sides of every argument have equal value. As librarians we have a responsibility to certain ideals that are not equally supported by all political views.

This, I feel, is a different issue than the public de-friending of those with different beliefs. It seems imperative for the future of public discourse that we learn the lost art of disagreeing amiably. Shutting down the views of those we disagree with is just not particularly helpful. It neither convinces anyone, nor grows understanding between sides. I find it very difficult to deal with sometimes. As a person who lives in a part of the country famous for beliefs that are different than my own, I would be constantly embattled if I were to respond to every post I disagree with on Facebook, but for people I care about, there&#039;s a chance that I could start to humanize the opposition just by stating my point of view, and perhaps start to help people see that &quot;I don&#039;t agree&quot; is not an attack.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Lauren has some great points. I don&#8217;t think that promoting the freedom to read and fighting censorship necessarily means that we should promote all worldviews equally. I have sat and helped people research and try to prove views that I found personally repugnant. I treated those persons with the same basic respect every human deserves, but providing equal access does not necessarily mean that we have to publicly say that both sides of every argument have equal value. As librarians we have a responsibility to certain ideals that are not equally supported by all political views.</p>
<p>This, I feel, is a different issue than the public de-friending of those with different beliefs. It seems imperative for the future of public discourse that we learn the lost art of disagreeing amiably. Shutting down the views of those we disagree with is just not particularly helpful. It neither convinces anyone, nor grows understanding between sides. I find it very difficult to deal with sometimes. As a person who lives in a part of the country famous for beliefs that are different than my own, I would be constantly embattled if I were to respond to every post I disagree with on Facebook, but for people I care about, there&#8217;s a chance that I could start to humanize the opposition just by stating my point of view, and perhaps start to help people see that &#8220;I don&#8217;t agree&#8221; is not an attack.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/beyond-agreeing-to-disagree/#comment-7118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lauren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/?p=1452#comment-7118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have two thoughts I&#039;m going to try and tie together and may fail with!

I don&#039;t believe that libraries are neutral institutions - what they (should) do in their aim to provide resources that don&#039;t promote certain items over others, their reaction to attempts of censorship etc., mean that they make inherently political choices on a daily basis, and their policies simply can&#039;t be neutral. They have educational and egalitarian goals that are in themselves political. We make value judgments about what we don&#039;t give a platform when it&#039;s of such a low quality or so hateful that it doesn&#039;t deserve the light of day.

I think agnostic pluralism has the potential to be incredibly valuable to society, and public spaces like libraries and online venues for discussion offer us the opportunity to engage in debate, disagree with people, work to change people&#039;s minds when we think they&#039;re mis- or uninformed about a topic, in a constructive way. There comes a point, though, when I personally have to walk away. When someone challenges a view you&#039;ve expressed, or if you feel the need to challenge someone&#039;s view, you can be as polite as possible and provide factual information, but you&#039;re not being impartial or neutral, and I don&#039;t think it&#039;s reasonable to expect people to be, librarian or otherwise, and I don&#039;t think it&#039;s unreasonable to unfollow or unfriend when you feel like you&#039;ve hit a brick wall (or are offended/hurt by someone&#039;s behaviour towards you). I think when you mention you&#039;ve done it and point out someone&#039;s ignorance or hateful behaviour could be a warning to others? I don&#039;t know, I&#039;ve not done it myself.

As a librarian, I didn&#039;t feel like I could be impartial about things like social justice. It&#039;d be neglecting an important aspect of the work I did. As a researcher, I certainly don&#039;t, because it&#039;d be intellectually dishonest. As a citizen, I feel like I should stand up for certain things when I believe them to be worth standing up for. As an internet user...I have to pick my battles. But they&#039;re battles that need to happen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have two thoughts I&#8217;m going to try and tie together and may fail with!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that libraries are neutral institutions &#8211; what they (should) do in their aim to provide resources that don&#8217;t promote certain items over others, their reaction to attempts of censorship etc., mean that they make inherently political choices on a daily basis, and their policies simply can&#8217;t be neutral. They have educational and egalitarian goals that are in themselves political. We make value judgments about what we don&#8217;t give a platform when it&#8217;s of such a low quality or so hateful that it doesn&#8217;t deserve the light of day.</p>
<p>I think agnostic pluralism has the potential to be incredibly valuable to society, and public spaces like libraries and online venues for discussion offer us the opportunity to engage in debate, disagree with people, work to change people&#8217;s minds when we think they&#8217;re mis- or uninformed about a topic, in a constructive way. There comes a point, though, when I personally have to walk away. When someone challenges a view you&#8217;ve expressed, or if you feel the need to challenge someone&#8217;s view, you can be as polite as possible and provide factual information, but you&#8217;re not being impartial or neutral, and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s reasonable to expect people to be, librarian or otherwise, and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s unreasonable to unfollow or unfriend when you feel like you&#8217;ve hit a brick wall (or are offended/hurt by someone&#8217;s behaviour towards you). I think when you mention you&#8217;ve done it and point out someone&#8217;s ignorance or hateful behaviour could be a warning to others? I don&#8217;t know, I&#8217;ve not done it myself.</p>
<p>As a librarian, I didn&#8217;t feel like I could be impartial about things like social justice. It&#8217;d be neglecting an important aspect of the work I did. As a researcher, I certainly don&#8217;t, because it&#8217;d be intellectually dishonest. As a citizen, I feel like I should stand up for certain things when I believe them to be worth standing up for. As an internet user&#8230;I have to pick my battles. But they&#8217;re battles that need to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: thelibrarian</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/beyond-agreeing-to-disagree/#comment-7117</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thelibrarian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/?p=1452#comment-7117</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I unfriended one person b/c their comments triggered some lousy memories for me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I unfriended one person b/c their comments triggered some lousy memories for me.</p>
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		<title>By: argumentsagainstreligion</title>
		<link>http://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/beyond-agreeing-to-disagree/#comment-7116</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[argumentsagainstreligion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://agnosticmaybe.wordpress.com/?p=1452#comment-7116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE: unfriending - People get offending too easily when someone disagrees with them. Partially, I think the offense they take is when they feel they do not have a clear understanding of their own beliefs, or they do not have sufficient arguments/evidence to back up their assertions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: unfriending &#8211; People get offending too easily when someone disagrees with them. Partially, I think the offense they take is when they feel they do not have a clear understanding of their own beliefs, or they do not have sufficient arguments/evidence to back up their assertions.</p>
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